ricky gervais tweeted this 11/14/12 and i totally agree with it:.
"there are good atheists and bad atheists.
there are good believers and bad believers.. no god has ever changed that.".
Qcmbr Your posts are among the most informative and worthwhile on the forum. I have commented a number of times on how highly I rate your contribution. Posters of your quality are not the problem but part of the solution.
FlyingHighNow Thank you. As always you light up my day.
ricky gervais tweeted this 11/14/12 and i totally agree with it:.
"there are good atheists and bad atheists.
there are good believers and bad believers.. no god has ever changed that.".
A Truce is usually a temporary cessation or suspension of hostilities by agreement of the opposing sides. Truces allow people breathing space to plot their next counter move. They seldom work because the reasons that people were fighting remain. Unsolved disagreement waits in the wings, ready to burst forth as soon as someone breaks the truce.
What is required is a genuine desire to discus differing points of view without allowing anger, jealousy, frustration or a desire for revenge to intrude. Compassion is needed towards those that we may believe are missing out because they have accepted fiction as fact or fact as fiction. Positive attributes such as kindness, empathy and love must be present or negative emotions will take the place of these qualities. The emotions that motivate us come from the values we hold.
Personally, I am attracted to people that are motivated by these heartfelt qualities, regardless of what their belief in the existence of God are. Their present beliefs or lack of beliefs are of no consequence to me. Their actions define them. Their genuine desire to act in a loving way and fair way is everything.
This is a varied and excellent forum and a decade or more of debates have helped many people to break free of their Jehovah's Witness indoctrination. If respect is shown on all sides many thousands more can be helped.
before i address the paradox (a statement that contradicts itself) i want to insert a fact from history.. .
the romans used a malleable (and highly poisonous) metal (lead) for water pipes and conduits.
as snows melted into pure water, it was channeled into sluices and pipes made of lead that ran through the cities as drinking water.. .
"Let me simplify it for you."
That would help the less enlightened among us to relate to your understanding of god and the language he uses to communicates to us through.
to the household of god, israel, that is on jw.com, and all those who 'got with' them:.
may you have peace!.
because israel has, at this 'season' fallen asleep with regard to many 'things' that our lord, the son of god, jah-eshua mischa-jah ("jah saves"; messiah - "chosen of jah"), 'commanded' us to teach others (matthew 28:20), i am compelled by the spirit of my father, the holy one of israel, jah of armies (psalm 68:4), that is in me, by means of my lord, to remind israel of one of such commandments.. on the night that he was put to death in the flesh, our lord gave a commandment, to which he stated "keep doing this in remembrance of me.
talesin Glad it meant something to you. We have all walke d a similar path. I hope the path you are now on leads to a peaceful place. One which you can be comfortable in and find a way to make sense of the past.
to the household of god, israel, that is on jw.com, and all those who 'got with' them:.
may you have peace!.
because israel has, at this 'season' fallen asleep with regard to many 'things' that our lord, the son of god, jah-eshua mischa-jah ("jah saves"; messiah - "chosen of jah"), 'commanded' us to teach others (matthew 28:20), i am compelled by the spirit of my father, the holy one of israel, jah of armies (psalm 68:4), that is in me, by means of my lord, to remind israel of one of such commandments.. on the night that he was put to death in the flesh, our lord gave a commandment, to which he stated "keep doing this in remembrance of me.
to the household of god, israel, that is on jw.com, and all those who 'got with' them:.
may you have peace!.
because israel has, at this 'season' fallen asleep with regard to many 'things' that our lord, the son of god, jah-eshua mischa-jah ("jah saves"; messiah - "chosen of jah"), 'commanded' us to teach others (matthew 28:20), i am compelled by the spirit of my father, the holy one of israel, jah of armies (psalm 68:4), that is in me, by means of my lord, to remind israel of one of such commandments.. on the night that he was put to death in the flesh, our lord gave a commandment, to which he stated "keep doing this in remembrance of me.
AGuest - Thank you for taking the time to read my ramblings and your concern. I look back on these events with a wry amusement. They no longer influence my approach to spiritual matters. I broke free from my mooring a long time ago.
to the household of god, israel, that is on jw.com, and all those who 'got with' them:.
may you have peace!.
because israel has, at this 'season' fallen asleep with regard to many 'things' that our lord, the son of god, jah-eshua mischa-jah ("jah saves"; messiah - "chosen of jah"), 'commanded' us to teach others (matthew 28:20), i am compelled by the spirit of my father, the holy one of israel, jah of armies (psalm 68:4), that is in me, by means of my lord, to remind israel of one of such commandments.. on the night that he was put to death in the flesh, our lord gave a commandment, to which he stated "keep doing this in remembrance of me.
Hope this is on topic. Taken from my notes:
The Easter holiday had arrived and it was time once again for our annual Memorial Service, our version of Holy Communion. Everyone vaguely interested in our religion was invited along. This year the ceremony was going to be special. The small damp hall, in which we usually met, was not large enough for the anticipated audience, so facilities in the Town Hall were hired. This was a splendid building, with two sets of large light oak doors. They led to a grand hall, shaped like a theatre.
Now that I was eight yeras old father explained the huge importance of the ceremony. ‘This is the most special meeting of the year. It is to remind us of the loving provision of God’s son who died for our sins. It is very likely that Armageddon will come on a Memorial night. Anyone who is in the building with us will probably be spared.’
‘Will it come tonight?’ I asked, reasoning that if it did I would not have to return to school.
‘It could well do! The end is due any day now and tonight would be an appropriate time for Jehovah, in his mercy, to act while we are all safely gathered together.’
My brother John and I met in the bedroom, to discuss in private this exciting moment. If ‘the end’ came tonight, it would mean we would not have time to say goodbye to our school friends and I had left my satchel at school with my crayons in it. A girl at school that I was fond of would be killed, along with my friends and teachers. I was not sure that I was ready for a new world as I had not yet got used to the old one. Still, there was nothing I could do about it and at least we as a family would be safe.
The great moment arrived and we walked through the first set of oak doors into the foyer. I did not turn to look back because I had read about how God had turned Lot ’s wife into a pillar of salt, because she looked back longingly at the city they were fleeing. On we went, through the second set of doors and into the Hall, which was finished in new light oak panelling. Once everyone was seated, the big doors were closed.
A long lecture followed, explaining the sacrifice Jesus had made. We were told that the ‘emblems’ of unleavened bread and red wine represented his body and blood. Only 144,000 anointed ones were going to heaven to rule with Jesus. This number included Jesus’ apostles and some of our members, living and dead. The dead members had already gone to heaven in 1919 and were waiting for the rest to catch up. The rest of us were going to live forever on earth and never grow old.
The anointed ones were allowed to sip the wine and have a piece of unleavened bread. The rest of us were just to pass the emblems on to the next person. We could witness these special members sipping the wine and by doing this we would also be saved. We were then warned that anyone who partook of the emblems unworthily could be killed. We did not want that to happen, so everyone was very careful.
The wine was slowly passed around. I watched intently to see if anyone who had not paid attention took a swig and died. Or perhaps I would get a glimpse of someone chosen for heaven sipping the wine, so I could be saved. I was allowed to pass the wine along with the help of my father’s guiding hand and noticed how nice it smelt. No one sipped the wine and it was returned to the silver tray untouched.
‘No one had any,’ I whispered to father. ‘How are we going to be saved now?’
He looked irritated then thoughtful before whispering, ‘Just listen and learn.’
The same happened with the bread. By now, I was worried that we would not be saved. ‘No one had any bread. Does this mean there are no anointed ones here?’ I asked quietly.
Father didn’t answer, so I pressed on. ’Will we still be saved?’
‘Be quiet and stop asking questions,’ father growled.
Oh well! There was always next year, but if Armageddon was happening outside, we might not be safe when we went out, as we had not witnessed anyone sipping the wine. I could not hear anything happening outside but the oak doors were very thick, so we were not going to know anything until we left the building. I looked towards John for reassurance but he just looked bored. Soon the ceremony was over and the congregation wandered around congratulating each other. It all seemed very serious and I realized that this was a most important occasion. People walked by and ruffled my hair as they smiled at mother, who stood there with a saintly look on her face.
Then it was time to leave our haven and go through the oak doors and return to the outside world and all its dangers. I was excited and my head was full of questions. Had Armageddon come? I had seen pictures in the Watchtower magazine showing what the destruction would look like.Would there be dead bodies and overturned cars? How had the worldly people been killed? Had people been crushed under falling buildings and were any buildings left standing? Was it safe to go outside yet or would everything still be on fire?
The last set of doors was finally opened and some of the brothers stepped through the doors without a moment’s hesitation. I followed but stopped at the door. Peering into the night the street looked remarkably calm and still. I gingerly stepped outside into the high street, eyes wide with anticipation. Everything looked so very normal and a few worldly people walked by and even looked at me. Jehovah must have decided to wait until next year. I realised with disappointment that I would be returning to school!
before i address the paradox (a statement that contradicts itself) i want to insert a fact from history.. .
the romans used a malleable (and highly poisonous) metal (lead) for water pipes and conduits.
as snows melted into pure water, it was channeled into sluices and pipes made of lead that ran through the cities as drinking water.. .
Perhaps the problem is that an inner spiritual experience cannot be accurately relayed or reveal through words. Words are the lead piping.
Only the person having the insight can truly understand and be transformed. Second and third-hand spiritual experiences have no value.
i just wanted to take a survey.
let's not let this get into the same old same old debate of atheism vs belief.
just respond with "atheist" or "believer" or "maybe god exists".
I'm somewhere between found and lost and lost and found.
peace to you!
i wanted to get some thoughts out there on this subject, because there are so many people who look to the bible as the image of god.
to the point that they do not look to christ at all, but rather they look to the law or to moses or to the ot as the image of god... over... christ.
On page 3 Terry delivered an excellent clarification of how worshiping a living god is different to worshiping the image of a god as found in a book. He makes no judgment, just explains the difference and sums up what Tec is seeking to explain. I’m amazed that an ace can be laid on the table and ignored.
Here it is again for those that missed it:
“We stand or fall in our response to the God we know.
Worship is man's natural reaction to an encounter with the living God.
For humans unacquainted with anything but a book or a prayer or a seat in an arena where "god" is spoken of no reality exists.
Idolatry becomes necessary. What better way to serve an unknown and unknowable except by erecting an IMAGE?
The IMAGE of "god" has no effect on the life of the idolator. None at all.
But, the transformation in the life of someone who has God living inside is a beacon so bright there is a glory reflected of how real such a god must be.
The goodness in any of us is attracted to such light so compelling is the majesty of such reality.
The sin in any of us wrenches away in the cynical mockery which is the only refuge of disbelief.
Those for whom such a God is undeniable no explanation is necessary. No image is required.
Those for whom such a God is impossible no explanation is possible. Only the image is real.”
